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Post by 4 on Feb 26, 2018 23:50:25 GMT -5
i like it too, with shelby added it is going to be a fun league. 2 years from now football season will be interesting, moac moving north. hope can find 8 schools and stay that way.
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Post by galion on Feb 26, 2018 23:51:15 GMT -5
Just an FYI to all, do not be so quick to dismiss Highland to the MOAC. They have a former Clear Fork guy running things over there now and from what I hear, they are not happy with things in the KMAC. I know they were the catalyst for the pull away from the MOAC but things have changed. I can't believe I am saying this but my bet is they will be the next school to join the MOAC. Just out of curiousity, what could they possibly not be happy about? They should be getting much bigger gates than they would in the MOAC. They'll always be competitive in the KMAC in all sports but will likely be mediocre in the MOAC in the two money making sports. I'm just curious as to what they could be unhappy about. All three of their big rivals in Fredericktown, Centerburg and Cardington are in their current league. Just curious as to what could entice them back to the MOAC. Why would they get bigger gates from much smaller schools? Typically how well a team travels is more indicative of how good they are than who they are playing. The can still schedule their "big rivals" in ooc games. They sure put a bunch of money into that athletic complex of theirs. It looks VERY nice. I've been to a few track meets there. They certainly look and sound like a school that is trying to grow their athletic programs to reflect the size of the school. I also think that their success against Ontario and RV this season in football gave them more confidence that they could do just that. That's going to be very had for them to do in the KMAC. They would certainly be a very easy sell to replace BV were they interested in doing so. If they were going to move to a conference with similar sized schools the MOAC would be geographically just about the best case scenario that they could ever hope for. |
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Post by pirate80 on Feb 27, 2018 7:24:03 GMT -5
Yeah they are smaller schools, but they all travel well because of history. After a couple years or if one team is particularly bad, Ontario and Shelby aren't traveling in mass to Sparta or vice versa. This is the same thinking that ruined the MOAC to begin with. More is not always better. Expansion ruined decades old rivalries with schools like Elgin and Ridgedale so that we could add schools like Alder, Upper, and Fairbanks who were clearly not a fit. When this is all said and done the MOAC will have regretted ever expanding to begin with. The league has no traditional rivalries left. There is a new budding one with RV and Harding but that conference was built on small schools that knew eachother. Small schools travel so well because everybody knows everybody and the outcomes are for local bragging rights. I mean no disrespect to any of the new teams, but when Ontario plays Pleasant....who cares? These aren't neighboring communities. They aren't even neighboring counties. The MOAC decision to ever expand in the first place has made it a league that will now be forever a league in transition. Of the ten original schools only two will remain after BV leaves. Pleasant and RV. Pleasant is a small school, yeah they have athletic resources but once North Union is gone their only "like" school will be Clearfork. Sure they'll get a bunch of football computer points but I just don't know if the league makes sense anymore. Expansion ruined a good thing. I think the KMAC which features a bunch of "like" schools is going to be a more sustainable league over the long run.
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Post by wallpass on Feb 27, 2018 7:39:51 GMT -5
Just an FYI to all, do not be so quick to dismiss Highland to the MOAC. They have a former Clear Fork guy running things over there now and from what I hear, they are not happy with things in the KMAC. I know they were the catalyst for the pull away from the MOAC but things have changed. I can't believe I am saying this but my bet is they will be the next school to join the MOAC. The Highland Principal is a former Ontario guy. The longest trip for Highland in the MOAC would be 35 miles to Shelby I was actually talking about the superintendent, Dan Freund, who was at Clear Fork until about 2010 but having a former Ontario principal helps as well. |
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Post by wallpass on Feb 27, 2018 8:02:24 GMT -5
Yeah they are smaller schools, but they all travel well because of history. After a couple years or if one team is particularly bad, Ontario and Shelby aren't traveling in mass to Sparta or vice versa. This is the same thinking that ruined the MOAC to begin with. More is not always better. Expansion ruined decades old rivalries with schools like Elgin and Ridgedale so that we could add schools like Alder, Upper, and Fairbanks who were clearly not a fit. When this is all said and done the MOAC will have regretted ever expanding to begin with. The league has no traditional rivalries left. There is a new budding one with RV and Harding but that conference was built on small schools that knew eachother. Small schools travel so well because everybody knows everybody and the outcomes are for local bragging rights. I mean no disrespect to any of the new teams, but when Ontario plays Pleasant....who cares? These aren't neighboring communities. They aren't even neighboring counties. The MOAC decision to ever expand in the first place has made it a league that will now be forever a league in transition. Of the ten original schools only two will remain after BV leaves. Pleasant and RV. Pleasant is a small school, yeah they have athletic resources but once North Union is gone their only "like" school will be Clearfork. Sure they'll get a bunch of football computer points but I just don't know if the league makes sense anymore. Expansion ruined a good thing. I think the KMAC which features a bunch of "like" schools is going to be a more sustainable league over the long run. I sent you a PM. |
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Post by galion on Feb 27, 2018 8:03:30 GMT -5
Yeah they are smaller schools, but they all travel well because of history. After a couple years or if one team is particularly bad, Ontario and Shelby aren't traveling in mass to Sparta or vice versa. This is the same thinking that ruined the MOAC to begin with. More is not always better. Expansion ruined decades old rivalries with schools like Elgin and Ridgedale so that we could add schools like Alder, Upper, and Fairbanks who were clearly not a fit. When this is all said and done the MOAC will have regretted ever expanding to begin with. The league has no traditional rivalries left. There is a new budding one with RV and Harding but that conference was built on small schools that knew eachother. Small schools travel so well because everybody knows everybody and the outcomes are for local bragging rights. I mean no disrespect to any of the new teams, but when Ontario plays Pleasant....who cares? These aren't neighboring communities. They aren't even neighboring counties. The MOAC decision to ever expand in the first place has made it a league that will now be forever a league in transition. Of the ten original schools only two will remain after BV leaves. Pleasant and RV. Pleasant is a small school, yeah they have athletic resources but once North Union is gone their only "like" school will be Clearfork. Sure they'll get a bunch of football computer points but I just don't know if the league makes sense anymore. Expansion ruined a good thing. I think the KMAC which features a bunch of "like" schools is going to be a more sustainable league over the long run. I assure you that the PL/Ont b ball game was very well attended as both teams were vying for a championship. If Elgin was such a big rival why then did you dump them for a non-MOAC mamber when you formed your current conference? If there is one thing that I learned in the NOL it's that even rivalry game attendance is heavily influenced by the overall success of the teams involved. The thing is districts change and evolve over time. Pleasant is no longer a small country school filled with farm kids. Sure there are still those elements there but they have a more diverse population feeding their student body now. Highland has expanded greatly. Given that there are probably roughly the same number of agricultural jobs in the district as there were before, it is safe to say that their "new" students are not coming from traditional rural families. I think that is what will drive their future plans. When I was in college at OWU, the Olentangy and Buckeye Valley school districts were little different than Col Crawford or Northmor. Neither of those are considered rural districts anymore. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 8:32:54 GMT -5
At this time Highland has not interest in leaving the KMAC to go anywhere. They like their fit and they feel they use their ooc games well. It has been said by their admins that if the KMAC competition were to drop they will look to improve their ooc games long before they look to jump leagues.
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Post by pirate80 on Feb 27, 2018 8:51:39 GMT -5
Yeah they are smaller schools, but they all travel well because of history. After a couple years or if one team is particularly bad, Ontario and Shelby aren't traveling in mass to Sparta or vice versa. This is the same thinking that ruined the MOAC to begin with. More is not always better. Expansion ruined decades old rivalries with schools like Elgin and Ridgedale so that we could add schools like Alder, Upper, and Fairbanks who were clearly not a fit. When this is all said and done the MOAC will have regretted ever expanding to begin with. The league has no traditional rivalries left. There is a new budding one with RV and Harding but that conference was built on small schools that knew eachother. Small schools travel so well because everybody knows everybody and the outcomes are for local bragging rights. I mean no disrespect to any of the new teams, but when Ontario plays Pleasant....who cares? These aren't neighboring communities. They aren't even neighboring counties. The MOAC decision to ever expand in the first place has made it a league that will now be forever a league in transition. Of the ten original schools only two will remain after BV leaves. Pleasant and RV. Pleasant is a small school, yeah they have athletic resources but once North Union is gone their only "like" school will be Clearfork. Sure they'll get a bunch of football computer points but I just don't know if the league makes sense anymore. Expansion ruined a good thing. I think the KMAC which features a bunch of "like" schools is going to be a more sustainable league over the long run. I assure you that the PL/Ont b ball game was very well attended as both teams were vying for a championship. If Elgin was such a big rival why then did you dump them for a non-MOAC mamber when you formed your current conference? If there is one thing that I learned in the NOL it's that even rivalry game attendance is heavily influenced by the overall success of the teams involved. The thing is districts change and evolve over time. Pleasant is no longer a small country school filled with farm kids. Sure there are still those elements there but they have a more diverse population feeding their student body now. Highland has expanded greatly. Given that there are probably roughly the same number of agricultural jobs in the district as there were before, it is safe to say that their "new" students are not coming from traditional rural families. I think that is what will drive their future plans. When I was in college at OWU, the Olentangy and Buckeye Valley school districts were little different than Col Crawford or Northmor. Neither of those are considered rural districts anymore. Elgin was a natural rival to Pleasant and North Union for a long time. And shared a 20+ year conference rivalry with the other like sized MOAC schools. But a school like Elgin can't compete with the Harding's and Ontario's of the world. You make some great points. I'm just a traditionalist I suppose. I'm sure this year's Pleasant and Ontario game was packed because there was something on the line. But if one is having a down year I don't see that being the case. Where as I would imagine if Pleasant and Elgin are playing, regardless of record, the place will be full no matter what. The same thought process I'd have with the rumoured Highland jump to the MOAC. If records are bad, nobody en masses is traveling to or from Shelby for example. That isn't the case with Fredericktown, Centerburg and Cardington. Let alone Northmor and MG. I miss the original MOAC. But once expansion began, spearheaded by Highland I believe, the small schools save for Pleasant had no choice but to look elsewhere. |
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Post by mrsteel on Feb 27, 2018 8:58:59 GMT -5
The trip to highland is very easy for Ontario or Shelby. Back in the MOC days the Ontario- Highland games were very well attended.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 11:49:38 GMT -5
The trip to highland is very easy for Ontario or Shelby. Back in the MOC days the Ontario- Highland games were very well attended. But isn't that the point of the discussion, games today are not attended like back then? I enjoy being somewhat of a traditionalist but I do accept change. I feel that in today's high school sports in order to get the seats as full as possible every year regardless of record you need low travel rivalry games. This is best found when the district connect and you have families/coworkers/students knowing each other from both schools. |
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Post by mrsteel on Feb 27, 2018 13:43:54 GMT -5
The trip to highland is very easy for Ontario or Shelby. Back in the MOC days the Ontario- Highland games were very well attended. But isn't that the point of the discussion, games today are not attended like back then? I enjoy being somewhat of a traditionalist but I do accept change. I feel that in today's high school sports in order to get the seats as full as possible every year regardless of record you need low travel rivalry games. This is best found when the district connect and you have families/coworkers/students knowing each other from both schools. Highland has grown since then too. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 13:47:10 GMT -5
But isn't that the point of the discussion, games today are not attended like back then? I enjoy being somewhat of a traditionalist but I do accept change. I feel that in today's high school sports in order to get the seats as full as possible every year regardless of record you need low travel rivalry games. This is best found when the district connect and you have families/coworkers/students knowing each other from both schools. Highland has grown since then too. It has nothing to do with growth. Some people need to loosen the mentality of size. |
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Post by galion on Feb 27, 2018 14:22:49 GMT -5
Highland has grown since then too. It has nothing to do with growth. Some people need to loosen the mentality of size. Then you had also better be ready to "loosen" any importance you place on wins and losses. Size matters, don't believe what your wife tells you. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2018 14:39:25 GMT -5
It has nothing to do with growth. Some people need to loosen the mentality of size. Then you had also better be ready to "loosen" any importance you place on wins and losses. Size matters, don't believe what your wife tells you. Tell Marion Harding your cute jokes as they finish 4th in football and 7th in basketball. I'm not talking Galion at 211 playing in a league with Findlay at 612. But what would Galion(211) be giving up if they were in a league with Lexington(301)? |
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Post by ohioraised on Feb 27, 2018 15:37:23 GMT -5
Why must you be this way? There is a difference between accepting something and wanting something. Ask your AD if he wants a 7 school league over an 8 school league. Don't ask him if he is okay with settling for 7. We already knew Ontario would settle when they went to the NOL. Your fact won't be for long since Ontario is getting a new AD. I must be like this because people like you spew untruths. I asked if you had spoken to every MOAC coach and AD. A simple query you failed to answer. Why?? You would have to admit you lied. Another untruthful supposition by you. Where did I say 7 schools is preferred? OBVIOUSLY all that is possible will be done to find a suitable 8th, but a desperation addition won't be made, as a 7 school league is very doable. You never tell me anything I don't already know, but you do post untruths that must pointed out. Do you know his name and what high school he graduated from? The current AD will be working with the other ADs to find a new school for several months before the new AD is up to speed, he's pretty green. No AD wants to be 7 schools, doable or not. I ain't got to tell you anything new, but if I did you would lie and say ya knew it. And your new AD is not green he is PURPLE. |
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Post by ohioraised on Feb 27, 2018 15:46:48 GMT -5
I would hope for Lex to get the spot over the others. Don't hold your breathe. Which side does not want this to happen? The people in the valley or the people on the hill? |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 17:06:57 GMT -5
Yeah they are smaller schools, but they all travel well because of history. After a couple years or if one team is particularly bad, Ontario and Shelby aren't traveling in mass to Sparta or vice versa. This is the same thinking that ruined the MOAC to begin with. More is not always better. Expansion ruined decades old rivalries with schools like Elgin and Ridgedale so that we could add schools like Alder, Upper, and Fairbanks who were clearly not a fit. When this is all said and done the MOAC will have regretted ever expanding to begin with. The league has no traditional rivalries left. There is a new budding one with RV and Harding but that conference was built on small schools that knew eachother. Small schools travel so well because everybody knows everybody and the outcomes are for local bragging rights. I mean no disrespect to any of the new teams, but when Ontario plays Pleasant....who cares? These aren't neighboring communities. They aren't even neighboring counties. The MOAC decision to ever expand in the first place has made it a league that will now be forever a league in transition. Of the ten original schools only two will remain after BV leaves. Pleasant and RV. Pleasant is a small school, yeah they have athletic resources but once North Union is gone their only "like" school will be Clearfork. Sure they'll get a bunch of football computer points but I just don't know if the league makes sense anymore. Expansion ruined a good thing. I think the KMAC which features a bunch of "like" schools is going to be a more sustainable league over the long run. Are you too young to remember to MOC? Ontario was a member with Hghland, Mt. Gilead, Northmor, Marion Catholic, Fredericktown, Cardngton and Crestline. Look at those schools! Anything look familiar? My memory serves that there were rivalries among most all schools. I remember a BIG rivalry between Ontario and Highland. A rivalry between Ontario and Cardington when they had the best basketball teams in the league. Ontario and Fredricktown were rivals dating back to the 1960s. Rivalries area a state of mind. Rivalries can be because they're neighboring districts, same counties, close games and competition for league titles. Rivalries are made when coaches, players and fans WANT there to be rivalries. Sounds like you're kinda picky when it comes to rivalries. FYI, Highland along with Cardington, Northmor, and Mt. Gilead ALL wanted to expand the MOAC to a larger than 10 school league. The main reason, as was eventually seen, was so those 4 schools could add the 3 schools they wanted, Centerburg, Fredericktown and East Knox, similar sized schools in their backyard. Then added Danville so those eight could slice the MOAC in half and create the KMAC. JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 18:04:59 GMT -5
I must be like this because people like you spew untruths. I asked if you had spoken to every MOAC coach and AD. A simple query you failed to answer. Why?? You would have to admit you lied. Another untruthful supposition by you. Where did I say 7 schools is preferred? OBVIOUSLY all that is possible will be done to find a suitable 8th, but a desperation addition won't be made, as a 7 school league is very doable. You never tell me anything I don't already know, but you do post untruths that must pointed out. Do you know his name and what high school he graduated from? The current AD will be working with the other ADs to find a new school for several months before the new AD is up to speed, he's pretty green. No AD wants to be 7 schools, doable or not. I ain't got to tell you anything new, but if I did you would lie and say ya knew it. And your new AD is not green he is PURPLE. Never said any AD would prefer 7 over 8, just that it was quite doable as any OCCer should know. Being PURPLE won't help, an elementary school teacher with no AD experience. They're taking it easy on him. Won't have to be assistant principal with his AD duties, as it's been in the past. JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 18:10:08 GMT -5
The Highland Principal is a former Ontario guy. The longest trip for Highland in the MOAC would be 35 miles to Shelby I was actually talking about the superintendent, Dan Freund, who was at Clear Fork until about 2010 but having a former Ontario principal helps as well. I realize that, just added another connection in the Highland administration with a MOAC school. I should have proceeded my short statement with AND...JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 18:24:42 GMT -5
The trip to highland is very easy for Ontario or Shelby. Back in the MOC days the Ontario- Highland games were very well attended. But isn't that the point of the discussion, games today are not attended like back then? I enjoy being somewhat of a traditionalist but I do accept change. I feel that in today's high school sports in order to get the seats as full as possible every year regardless of record you need low travel rivalry games. This is best found when the district connect and you have families/coworkers/students knowing each other from both schools. Low travel rivalry games. EXACTLY! That's why Ontario's non-league games include Mansfield Senior, Madison, Lexington, Highland, Norwalk, Christian. Used to include Ashland, Upper, CC, St.Petes, Willard, Shelby, Clear Fork and Galion. Glad to be playing Shelby, Clear Fork and Galion TWICE a year again. THE SINGLE most important factor of good crowds is the HOME fans. That's up to the coaches and players. JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 18:32:33 GMT -5
Then you had also better be ready to "loosen" any importance you place on wins and losses. Size matters, don't believe what your wife tells you. Tell Marion Harding your cute jokes as they finish 4th in football and 7th in basketball. I'm not talking Galion at 211 playing in a league with Findlay at 612. But what would Galion(211) be giving up if they were in a league with Lexington(301)? SO lacking in knowledge. Harding won the MOAC last year in basketball. This year they lost BY FAR their best player to injury, preseason. Their 4th place finish in football was a better finish then they've had in years, before joining the the MOAC. Even the tormentors, realize a school that has not won much in the past, that starts to win in a new league will have more players coming out, more players sticking with it and more players lifting and working on skills in the summer. Then winning even more games and keeping and getting more kids out. Perpetuating the cycle. THAT is what some in the MOAC fear. JMHO |
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Post by BellevueBuckeye on Feb 27, 2018 18:36:14 GMT -5
So, just for the sake of speculation....if Highland did go to the MOAC, who would the KMAC go after to get back to 8?
Elgin? Utica? Lucas? Loudonville? Crestline?
If they added someone not from Knox or Morrow County would they change the name of the conference? Though of course Mt. Vernon is the only school from those counties not already in the league (and I realize there's no chance of them being invited), however Utica is only just barely over the line and does have a third of its district in Knox, and Loudonville has a small part of their district in Knox as well, so either of those 2 being added could technically be close enough to keep the name geographically correct.
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Post by runawaytrain on Feb 27, 2018 18:38:19 GMT -5
Just wait until Buckeye Valley gets a whif of the crowds the MSL schools bring...or don’t. They can be pretty putrid.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 18:39:25 GMT -5
The N-10 hasn't changed their name to the N-9  JMHO |
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Feb 27, 2018 19:36:17 GMT -5
Just wait until Buckeye Valley gets a whif of the crowds the MSL schools bring...or don’t. They can be pretty putrid. Yep, little schools don't bring big crowds. JMHO |
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Post by wallacefan on Feb 27, 2018 21:59:39 GMT -5
So, just for the sake of speculation....if Highland did go to the MOAC, who would the KMAC go after to get back to 8? Elgin? Utica? Lucas? Loudonville? Crestline? If they added someone not from Knox or Morrow County would they change the name of the conference? Though of course Mt. Vernon is the only school from those counties not already in the league (and I realize there's no chance of them being invited), however Utica is only just barely over the line and does have a third of its district in Knox, and Loudonville has a small part of their district in Knox as well, so either of those 2 being added could technically be close enough to keep the name geographically correct. Should Highland leave...its: 1a. Utica 1b. Loudonville. (Although there would be some push back here) |
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Post by pirate80 on Feb 27, 2018 22:02:46 GMT -5
So, just for the sake of speculation....if Highland did go to the MOAC, who would the KMAC go after to get back to 8? Elgin? Utica? Lucas? Loudonville? Crestline? If they added someone not from Knox or Morrow County would they change the name of the conference? Though of course Mt. Vernon is the only school from those counties not already in the league (and I realize there's no chance of them being invited), however Utica is only just barely over the line and does have a third of its district in Knox, and Loudonville has a small part of their district in Knox as well, so either of those 2 being added could technically be close enough to keep the name geographically correct. I'd be fine with any of those. Not that my opinion matters lol |
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Post by pirate80 on Feb 27, 2018 22:03:28 GMT -5
Yeah they are smaller schools, but they all travel well because of history. After a couple years or if one team is particularly bad, Ontario and Shelby aren't traveling in mass to Sparta or vice versa. This is the same thinking that ruined the MOAC to begin with. More is not always better. Expansion ruined decades old rivalries with schools like Elgin and Ridgedale so that we could add schools like Alder, Upper, and Fairbanks who were clearly not a fit. When this is all said and done the MOAC will have regretted ever expanding to begin with. The league has no traditional rivalries left. There is a new budding one with RV and Harding but that conference was built on small schools that knew eachother. Small schools travel so well because everybody knows everybody and the outcomes are for local bragging rights. I mean no disrespect to any of the new teams, but when Ontario plays Pleasant....who cares? These aren't neighboring communities. They aren't even neighboring counties. The MOAC decision to ever expand in the first place has made it a league that will now be forever a league in transition. Of the ten original schools only two will remain after BV leaves. Pleasant and RV. Pleasant is a small school, yeah they have athletic resources but once North Union is gone their only "like" school will be Clearfork. Sure they'll get a bunch of football computer points but I just don't know if the league makes sense anymore. Expansion ruined a good thing. I think the KMAC which features a bunch of "like" schools is going to be a more sustainable league over the long run. Are you too young to remember to MOC? Ontario was a member with Hghland, Mt. Gilead, Northmor, Marion Catholic, Fredericktown, Cardngton and Crestline. Look at those schools! Anything look familiar? My memory serves that there were rivalries among most all schools. I remember a BIG rivalry between Ontario and Highland. A rivalry between Ontario and Cardington when they had the best basketball teams in the league. Ontario and Fredricktown were rivals dating back to the 1960s. Rivalries area a state of mind. Rivalries can be because they're neighboring districts, same counties, close games and competition for league titles. Rivalries are made when coaches, players and fans WANT there to be rivalries. Sounds like you're kinda picky when it comes to rivalries. FYI, Highland along with Cardington, Northmor, and Mt. Gilead ALL wanted to expand the MOAC to a larger than 10 school league. The main reason, as was eventually seen, was so those 4 schools could add the 3 schools they wanted, Centerburg, Fredericktown and East Knox, similar sized schools in their backyard. Then added Danville so those eight could slice the MOAC in half and create the KMAC. JMHO Yes. I'm much too young. 😁 |
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Post by wallacefan on Feb 27, 2018 22:05:02 GMT -5
Just wait until Buckeye Valley gets a whif of the crowds the MSL schools bring...or don’t. They can be pretty putrid. They will take a financial bath. Big losses. Columbus people don't want to drive north if Delaware for a game. Ever. North Union not as much, but they will lose gate as well. Their decisions. Hope their Boards have an extra $20,000-$30,000 per annum to help bail out their Athletic Departments. Will start draining the General Fund. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 8:28:55 GMT -5
Which side does not want this to happen? The people in the valley or the people on the hill? Lexington and Clear Fork would like to still be in a league together. Their fans travel well and create an atmosphere for most contests between the schools. |
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JMHO