MOAC 2016

[stanley]

Glad to hear Pleasant may be returning to some of their old ways again.

[jedbartlet98]

I am also happy to see Pleasant back to the Wing-T Option offense.

My favorite offense to watch when it's run correctly

[stanley]

I think the last couple years a lot of guys wanted to give the spread a shot, and I can't necessarily argue with it, it certainly can do some damage. Just turn on the tv on a Saturday afternoon and you can see that. The issue though is, those college coaches get to pick from whoever they want from around the nation to play certain positions or roles. How many of Urbans receivers were QBs in Highschool? I don't know the exact number, but at least a few. He knew they wouldn't be QBs for him, but he wanted their speed at the slot. We don't quite have that luxury in the MOAC. Meanwhile, there are a lot of Highschool teams out there that can run the spread and run it well. Usually, that's a reflection of a head coach who has been coaching for awhile and has been a "spread guy" for most of his life, or it could be a young guy who was born and raised in the spread offense. So many coaches in the league today (or what I should say is coaches in Marion/Morrow county) are guys that coached under or played under Kubbs (power t and wing t guy) or going way back Jim Trainer (power T guy) or Bremigan (power T/power I guy) and the spread is kind of just unfamiliar.

[stanley]

Also, as per the topic of computer points (no I'm not trying to add onto the knocking of GT, if anything I'm trying to help him or anyone else that might not know out a little bit) you get the following first level points based off of the division of the school you beat
Division 1= 6.5 points
2 = 6.0 points
3 = 5.5
4 = 5.0
5 = 4.5
6 = 4.0
7 = 3.5
You add these up and divide them by the number of games you played (non OHSAA schools (Columbus Crusaders, Reigning Thunder, etc. do not count) so if the seasons over you divide by 10, but if you had one bye week or one non OHSAA school on there you divide by 9, etc.
Secondary points
Add up all the wins of teams you have beaten (with the exception of non OHSAA schools) using the same division/points chart as listed above. You then divide by 100 or 99 if one of those teams played a non OHSAA school or had a bye week, 98 if that happened twice, etc. you then multiply this number by 10 and that is your secondary points

Lastly you add the first level and second level points together and that is the number of Harbin points you have.

One more thing I believe out of state teams do NOT count as non OHSAA. They usually figure out the enrollment of that school and you get points based off of what division they would be and the teams they played would be, if they were in Ohio. Usually JoeEitels website can tell you this info.

Anyone please feel free to correct anything I may have wrong or might have missed. I know OHSAA has a link somewhere to it on their website, but I just went ahead and typed off the top of my head

[Deleted]

^^^Pretty good info.

[usa70pp]

You can't argue with success, 2001 D5 state runner-up and 2002 D5 champion, but if Pleasant was ever to run the spread those two years stand out in my mind. Scott Jefferies in 2001 and Trevor Harris in 2002. Most people know what Trevor did the rest of his high school career and college. When you have Jake Bennett running behind Trevor you can see why Kubbs ran the offense he dd. Looking forward to this year. Just wish Pleasant had more beef on the line.

[stanley]

USA your not kidding those two boys could play. I always admired how even though Pleasant ran T, Wing t, etc. they still could throw the ball like it was their job. Scott and Trevor both would have shined in the spread as well.

[stanley]

...and if I recall they did experiment with a little bit of spread here and there in 2008 with Trevor Harris younger brother Cody? I really feel like they tryed it out when they played St Henry that year, but I may be wrong.

[galiontiger]

Babymaker..I never asked you to apologize..never knew you even said anything, so I'm not going to waste my time responding to you now.

Ok....update from tonight. We looked even more terrible against Shelby. Is that even possible? We can't run the ball. We can't move the ball. My son thinks he's Johnny Manziel scrambling..spinning..running backwards. It has to stop. Get straight up the field and get as many yards you can get. You aren't fast, don't pretend like you are. Not happy. The score was 32-0 at halftime when the 1st team offense/defense stopped playing. We didn't get a first down until our 3rd series. In fact, I think we only got 2 positive yards.

I don't sugar-coat our performance. We are looking bad. Same thing tonight..make a couple of good stops to start the game..give up big play. It was 13-0 until like the 2nd quarter. Then first play...50 yard run touchdown..next series first play 45 yard touchdown run. I can only hope we somehow do some soul searching and our head coach comes up with some fabulous plays for Bucyrus. I'm hoping getting beat up by Shelby fires us up for Bucyrus at home next week. I'm praying that Centerburg and Shelby were just that good, and our league isn't on the same level as those 2 teams. I know "wishful thinking Ron". I'm hoping if we can just get 2 wins out of the first 3 games; we can finally establish some sort of team unity. I haven't seen any motivation from our team yet though. They go through the motions. Someone has to step up and fire this team up. We have the talent. I know we do. We have to start showing it though. Go Tigers! I'm pulling for you guys..we just somehow...some way got to get this first win against Bucyrus.

[stanley]

Good info GT. Too bad it was such a bad day for Galion though. Good news is I doubt Bucyrus or Keystone will be as good as Shelby this year. Cardington in comparison with Shelby? Eh not so sure about. I do believe Cardington will be better than Centerburg this year though. Centerburg took a decent hit to graduation this year and a huge hit in losing their head coach. With that being said I do believe a long time assistant there is their new head coach, so maybe that won't be a factor. Cardington meanwhile, returns a lot. Not to mention, they are HUNGRY and hungry for more than a blue division title, their eyes are set on the playoffs. Will they make it? We will see, but I think they are going to be better than they were last season, actually I believe it will be the best team they have had since 2007. If not better then that team as well. I'm not trying to sit here and say Cardington will smash up Galion or smash up the blue division in league play later on, but I am saying Galion will have their hands full in week 2. When it comes to the blue division I'm hoping to catch every game that Cardington, Fredericktown, and Highland play each other in. I'm guessing they will be slugfests and all three of those games may look like when Cardington and Highland played last season.

[babymaker]

PHS looked good but not sure if it was because clearfork was bad or not. Supposedly their defense had not been scored on in their previous scrimmages. At the end of the half it 34-0. They had a ton of size but they never seemed to get to use it. Defensively looked sharp I think they only crossed the 50 one time.

[harding]

Harding did a nice job tonight against Delaware won 16-14 defense played well OB played well ran ok line was a little shaky Delaware blitzed a lot. over all played a nice game looking forward for next week

[galion]

GT, take a deep breath and relax. Shelby is one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the area. They will be 10-0 and do what they did to us to a number of people this year. Centerburg will easily be an 8-9 win team. I'm not one to sugarcoat things either. I've always felt that we were a 5-6 win team and still do. Anyone who felt like we had a prayer of hanging with Shelby is freaking delusional. Actually 13-0 after 1 was better than I expected. I doubt that our new coach showed much of our gameplan in these scrimmages as it would be stupid to give Bucyrus and Cardington extra time to prepare for it.

[stanley]

Galion, that's really really good insight and I respect what you said a lot. However, I really don't think C-Berg wins more than 7 this year. I believe they will be no worse than 4th in the blue, but Highland, Fredericktown, and Cardington will all have too much for them.

[galion]

Where did c berg's coach end up going? I know that we wanted to hire him but couldn't get him enough experience pay.

[moacfootballfan]

Good to find a board to continue on. I was on the huddle like 15-20 years ago when it was free but haven't been on there since they began charging for memberships. I was at the Galion game as well and I saw a 1st string that didn't appear to even be competitive with their Shelby counterparts.

On OFFENSE: Our quarterback had a fumble, interception, overthrows, underthrows. I won't blame him for scrambling issues since the line shares a large part of that burden. When the throws were accurate, the recievers didn't seem to have the hands to bring the ball in.

On DEFENSE: Very poor tackling. It appeared as though our tacklers were trying to bring down a greased pig and were outsped by Shelby. We would have 2-3 guys waiting downfield to tackle a runner/receiver and they would watch the runner run towards them and then right around them.

JV had some nice performances though.

[stanley]

Galion, I'm not positive where he may have gone. If there are any Centerburg faithful on the forum they might know. I was really expecting him and Galion to work out, it didn't, but I think Galion still got a very good coach in who I believe is the old Fredericktown O-coordinator? Once I saw Mount Vernon had an opening for a head coach I was expecting them to reach out to him, but that just me guessing there was never a rumor I heard or anything credible and I never heard who MV ended up hiring, but I'm pretty sure it was not C-Bergs coach.

[GHS 1999]

Yes Coach Dick was Fredericktown's offensive coordinator for the previous 6 seasons.

[Willard Fillmore]

Aug 20, 2016 23:45:29 GMT -5 Willard Fillmore said:

Aug 20, 2016 4:26:10 GMT -5 galion said:

GT, take a deep breath and relax. Shelby is one of the top 2 or 3 teams in the area. They will be 10-0 and do what they did to us to a number of people this year. Centerburg will easily be an 8-9 win team. I'm not one to sugarcoat things either. I've always felt that we were a 5-6 win team and still do. Anyone who felt like we had a prayer of hanging with Shelby is freaking delusional. Actually 13-0 after 1 was better than I expected. I doubt that our new coach showed much of our gameplan in these scrimmages as it would be stupid to give Bucyrus and Cardington extra time to prepare for it.

Shelby could go 9-1, I don't know if they can beat Bellevue. Shelby should be even better next year.  GT, how does your son compare to Shelby's Junior QB Armstrong? I haven't seen Galion play for a couple of years, even though I have a bunch of relatives over there. I have seen Armstrong play the past 2 years. 

[galion]

Galion is down this year physically compared to the last few. Probably, that is a contributing factor in where Hawkins is now. The Galion qb is a prototype drop back pocket passer. Around 6-4/5 with an absolute cannon for an arm. As GT mentioned earlier mobility is not his strong suit but he can move around adequately. Armstrong is just a special athlete who can pretty much do anything he wants to and seem to do it effortlessly. So how is Ontario looking so far? It has been pretty quiet. Given what they spent to get Hawkins over there I would imagine that they'd expect some immediate results.

[pirate80]

Cardington had their under the lights full scrimmage with Bucyrus.

Cardington wins 62-19.

Cardington pulled their starters at the end of second quarter up 48-7.

Bucyrus starters played well into the third quarter.

Cardington offense looked real sharp, save for one wide open drop by our All Ohio receiver....so that is encouraging.

Lot of missed tackles for the Pirates, but starters tightened that up the longer they were in.

Cardington has depth at the skill positions, but only 35 total kids on the roster. I was very impressed with freshman qb and rb. Both were very poised for their first action under the lights.

Cardington looked very fast. I don't know how good we are but Bucyrus really struggled with our pass rush.

We'll start to find out this week!

[galiontiger]

Pirate80....What were Bucyrus strengths and weakness?

Comparing my son with the Shelby's quarterback..hmmmm..Armstrong is a few inches shorter than my son. He's much faster though. I would say comparable arm strength. Armstrong looked so much better the other night. But you have to put what type of team he has too, he's been with these same kids growing up. He's been Shelby's QB since a Freshman for varsity. My son came to Galion last year. He has lost everyone too..his whole line (both sides). So Shelby kicked his butt the other night.

This is just my opinion: The problem has always been with my son, and I can't complain about it. My son excels (like the man above stated) dropping back to pass. If you look at all his big completions last year, he dropped back and if pressure came, he's good and taking that little side step to the side and unleashing the ball down field. He did that at Crestline too. But last year we started out throwing these little sideline-to-sideline passes, which worked good against lesser opponents, but my son struggled early to throw those passes. Why I have no clue, you would think that would be the easiest throw in the world. With about 4 games left in the season, Coach Hawkins finally allowed my son to throw more downfield, and we started to have blow-out games. Our great defense really stepped up too in a HUGE way. This season Coach Dick is having my son roll out of the pocket and throw on the run, something he has never done. He's not comfortable doing that. He really struggled in our football camps this year doing that. He's getting better at it though. My thing is this it seems to limit his option of using his height and arm strength in the pocket to survey the whole field. That's what he excels at, when you move him to one side of the field it really limits his options. I know coaches love mobile quarterbacks. I just don't think Chase is one of those quarterbacks.

Can I ask you all a question? Why do coaches love mobile quarterbacks and don't just keep say someone like my son as a drop-back QB? Build the offense around him? Is it because a coach comes in with an offense scheme, he builds for years not just for one season (because my son graduates this school year)? I kind of figured if I was a coach and knowing coaches are judged on wins and losses, I would build the offense around my QB and worry about next year when it comes..and I could analyze what type of talent I had for that upcoming year. I guess that's why I'm not the coach. LOL

[stanley]

Well for your coach in particular GT I would say it's the offensive scheme your head coach has been apart of. The Freddie's since 2010 have either gone with pro-style I backs (which would probably fit your sons style better, but not Galions offense as a whole due to you need BEASTs as O-lineman to run that and usually two running backs almost as strong as your lineman) or they have ran some spread jet, jet veer, etc. and most of their passes have been rollout passes. He had two (I believe brothers) from 2010-2015 with the last name of Hathaway playing QB for him in that time. Those two kids were smart, they were fast, throwing was average but they made good decisions, and they were just playmakers all around. Whenever they faced a team with a poor front seven they usually stuck to their pro style and pounded the ball, when they faced teams with a great front 7 and pass rush, they spread it out and almost every pass was a rollout. This is in a sense, hoping your tackle can reach the D-end you rollout towards. If this happens the rest of the D-line and any blitzing backers have basically been taken out of the play because now the QB has all day to throw as he rolls out towards an open sidelines. Even if no one is open the QB can probably scramble for 5 or so yards. Now for Galion, Cooke is not as fast or mobile as the Hathaway boys were, Cooke has a better arm then they did, decision making pretty comparable. I've read that Galions O-Line seems to be down this year along with running backs, but a great QB and perhaps some good receivers. Is it possible you may have one tackle that's decently quick? If so, this formula is why the coach wants to work in these rollout passes. If he has one tackle that is quick and strong enough to reach a d-end he wants to give the rest of the O-Line a break and let the QB and receivers get to work. This is tough on your son, however, coaches usually put the most pressure on their best players.

[galion]

Well stated. Gt you essentially answered your own question. The ENTIRE line is gone from last year. Against even an average team there is not going to be a pocket from which your son can survey the field. Rolling him out is the only chance we have of keeping him upright long enough to find any receivers whether it's part of Dick's offensive scheme or not. If Hawkins was still here he'd be doing the same thing.

[usa70pp]

"With about 4 games left in the season, Coach Hawkins finally allowed my son to throw more downfield, and we started to have blow-out games."
GT, the fact that those 4 teams, River Valley, Fairbanks, North Union and Pleasant had a combined record of 14 and 26 could have had something to do with Galion's success.

[galion]

It had more to do with our receivers FINALLY catching some balls that hit them in the hands, something that was a rarity up until that point. Also, those wins were mostly to do with the absolutely amazing season Drake Barnett had last season. He put that offense on his back and made some special things happen.

[GHS 1999]

It helped that the opponents were not as good although RV was pretty good. Barnett's running really opened up the passing game. Heck, they even stayed with Edison into the third quarter of the playoff game. Galion really lost a lot off of that team. That's why I have been saying 4-5 wins this year.

[Willard Fillmore]

Aug 21, 2016 8:37:27 GMT -5 galiontiger said:

Can I ask you all a question? Why do coaches love mobile quarterbacks and don't just keep say someone like my son as a drop-back QB? Build the offense around him? Is it because a coach comes in with an offense scheme, he builds for years not just for one season (because my son graduates this school year)? I kind of figured if I was a coach and knowing coaches are judged on wins and losses, I would build the offense around my QB and worry about next year when it comes..and I could analyze what type of talent I had for that upcoming year. I guess that's why I'm not the coach. LOL

I know you dislike him. You say he thinks he's god. Not god, just one of the 2 best college football coaches in the county, Urban Meyer. He says he would NEVER recruit a QB that isn't "athletic" enough to avoid the rush, scramble away from the rush, continue to look down field and find an open receiver. There has NEVER been an O-line put together that on every pass play always gives their QB 4 seconds to throw. Most College coaches like their QB's to be able to run and pick up yardage. At the Pro level a QB who can run if necessary and pick up 5 yards before running out of bounds or sliding is an asset, but not a requirement. I can't think of a College or Pro head coach that doesn't want an "athletic" QB. I'm not talking Mike Vick, just Peyton Mannng and Tom Brady. People don't think of either being "athletic". Watch games and the knowledgeable will know they are "athletic" enough to avoid a rush and keep the play alive. There have been very few statue like QBs that have had a successful College or Pro career. 

[galiontiger]

Weeeellll WF....I don't like cocky coaches. You are right. I don't necessary like Urban Meyer (I'll say it, but I don't hate him, because I love winning coaches.), nor do I like Nick Saban. They are at elite colleges who can bring in top-rated players no matter who the coach is. Plus I'm being honest here, you can have all these quick quarterbacks that Ohio State has. I don't think Urban Meyer has that great of talent on selecting quarterbacks anyway. How many quarterbacks did we go through last year? How many open receivers were wide open and "this athletic QB" couldn't hit them even with no pressure on them? It was ridiculous to me. Since Urban Meyer has been there, I've only seen one QB have any kind of success, and he wasn't all that fast - Cardale Jones 2 years ago. Who gets picked high in the NFL draft usually big QB who aren't all that fast? My son is faster than a pro-QB you used too...Tom Brady (5.28 in the 40 at the 2000 NFL combine.) So Chase can scramble good enough, we will see come Friday I guess.

[galiontiger]

Aug 21, 2016 19:00:27 GMT -5 GHS 1999 said:

It helped that the opponents were not as good although RV was pretty good. Barnett's running really opened up the passing game. Heck, they even stayed with Edison into the third quarter of the playoff game. Galion really lost a lot off of that team. That's why I have been saying 4-5 wins this year.

I love you ghs1999, but I think you forgot how that game (Galion vs. River Valley) went. Barnett struggled in that game against RV at the opening. Coach Hawkins wasn't playing my son at QB. Chase came in right before half. River Valley was up on us like 14-0. It honestly should have been by 21 points. They brought my son in at QB and he hit Fryer on a 14 yard TD pass on like 4th down or with only like 20 seconds left in the half. Then we got the ball to start the 3rd quarter, and we scored again and again...and again. Barnett started to get going at the end of the 2nd quarter and from there out. He was amazing runner for us all year long. He was our MVP for sure. You can say he opened up the passing game but for that game it was the other way around. I've got the tape of the game, because that game was on television. The announcer was saying that by bringing in Chase at QB; it really allowed Barnett to get going. The announcer said that now RV had to worry about getting burned by the pass, where earlier they were keying on Barnett because there was no threat of getting beat downfield by the pass. That was a game that turned everything around for us.

AND yes you can look at the teams we beat wins and loss record. They were bad. But we weren't just beating them, we were putting up 50 and 60 points against them. We lost everyone this year though. And you can't just look at how bad those teams were either, we were neck-n-neck with Edision up until the mid 3rd quarter. Look how good that team was, they only allowed Swanton to score what like 14 points against them or something like that.