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Post by moacpops on Dec 30, 2020 19:26:00 GMT -5
Mount Vernon 54. Marion Harding 45 Final
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marchmadness
All Conference
2021 Playoff Pick'em Champion
Posts: 326
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Post by marchmadness on Dec 31, 2020 14:04:12 GMT -5
Is there any link to watch the Shelby Ontario game?
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 31, 2020 15:08:28 GMT -5
Wmfd.com
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 31, 2020 15:23:19 GMT -5
Both teams hot from the three point line in that first quarter
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 15:23:48 GMT -5
Shelby Ontario 17 all after one
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 15:41:53 GMT -5
Shelby 27, Ontario 24 halftime
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 16:08:24 GMT -5
Ontario 40, Shelby 38 after three
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 31, 2020 16:09:50 GMT -5
Ugly game. Lots of turnovers by both teams. Shelby has a huge size advantage that they aren’t taking advantage of.
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Post by shelbyrr11 on Dec 31, 2020 16:30:16 GMT -5
I haven't watched this game at all, but I know Shelby has a certain resistance to using any form of post-up play, both this year and last year.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 16:35:36 GMT -5
Shelby 65, Ontario 60 Final
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 31, 2020 16:56:59 GMT -5
I haven't watched this game at all, but I know Shelby has a certain resistance to using any form of post-up play, both this year and last year. Actually used it in the fourth quarter a bit. Game came down to free throws. Shelby was probably 70-75% and Ontario might have struggled to get to 50%. If they make their FTs they probably win the game.
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Post by whippetfan on Dec 31, 2020 17:03:34 GMT -5
And Shelby freshman Alex Bruskotter coming off the bench to hit a very timely three pointer to help open things up in the fourth. Not a pretty team win as there are tons of takeaways to work on, but it keeps you undefeated in league play.
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Post by fanofthegame on Dec 31, 2020 18:38:03 GMT -5
I haven't watched this game at all, but I know Shelby has a certain resistance to using any form of post-up play, both this year and last year. I’ve watched Shelby basketball for 20 years through four coaches and I can only really remember them making much use of the post with one player (Parker Grove), maybe two (Matt Sommer). Now, admittedly, I can’t remember more than a couple of players really tall enough to call a true post and a couple of them wanted to play facing the basket. Anymore a kid who wants to play at the next level doesn’t want to play with his back to the basket unless he’s at least 6’ 7-8” because at most colleges 6’3-4” is a guard. You might get a 6’3-4” football player to play post for the basketball team, but not a basketball only guy. I think it makes your team better if you develop an inside game even if the kids you use are undersized. It’s hard to defend a fundamental post move even if you’re a little small. Pin and drop step. Head fake if you need to. Up and under. Without a post game you’re kinda like a passing football team without a respectable run game to keep the DB’s honest on the play fake. If there is no inside threat the guards never have to sag off their man to help on the post.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 18:45:42 GMT -5
And Shelby freshman Alex Bruskotter coming off the bench to hit a very timely three pointer to help open things up in the fourth. Not a pretty team win as there are tons of takeaways to work on, but it keeps you undefeated in league play. Casual fans often over look the importance of what happens early in a game as opposed to what happens late in the 4th quarter. IMO the reason Shelby won this game, along with Ontario's free throw shooting woes, was three 3 pointers by Roberts in the first 2 minutes of the game. Giving him 9 points early in the 1st quarter and a total of 11 for the game.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 18:49:00 GMT -5
I haven't watched this game at all, but I know Shelby has a certain resistance to using any form of post-up play, both this year and last year. Pugh only had 5 points at half time. Ontario's quick, yet physical, 5-9(9" shorter ) McChistall gave Pugh problems on the perimeter where he likes to play. In the second half he was made to play on the post and in close, getting 15 in the 2nd half.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Dec 31, 2020 19:07:52 GMT -5
I haven't watched this game at all, but I know Shelby has a certain resistance to using any form of post-up play, both this year and last year. I’ve watched Shelby basketball for 20 years through four coaches and I can only really remember them making much use of the post with one player (Parker Grove), maybe two (Matt Sommer). Now, admittedly, I can’t remember more than a couple of players really tall enough to call a true post and a couple of them wanted to play facing the basket. Anymore a kid who wants to play at the next level doesn’t want to play with his back to the basket unless he’s at least 6’ 7-8” because at most colleges 6’3-4” is a guard. You might get a 6’3-4” football player to play post for the basketball team, but not a basketball only guy. I think it makes your team better if you develop an inside game even if the kids you use are undersized. It’s hard to defend a fundamental post move even if you’re a little small. Pin and drop step. Head fake if you need to. Up and under. Without a post game you’re kinda like a passing football team without a respectable run game to keep the DB’s honest on the play fake. If there is no inside threat the guards never have to sag off their man to help on the post. You didn't see Shelby play in in the late late 60's. Cal Dietz was 6-7 and at least 240. 100% back to the basket. He moved from Crestline to Shelby to play football. I think he scored around 400 points his Jr and Sr seasons, when they only played 18 games. In the late 90's they had a 6-7 kid Josh Steele, most of his points came down low. I think he got a scholarship to a mid major school.
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Post by fanofthegame on Dec 31, 2020 20:02:49 GMT -5
I’ve watched Shelby basketball for 20 years through four coaches and I can only really remember them making much use of the post with one player (Parker Grove), maybe two (Matt Sommer). Now, admittedly, I can’t remember more than a couple of players really tall enough to call a true post and a couple of them wanted to play facing the basket. Anymore a kid who wants to play at the next level doesn’t want to play with his back to the basket unless he’s at least 6’ 7-8” because at most colleges 6’3-4” is a guard. You might get a 6’3-4” football player to play post for the basketball team, but not a basketball only guy. I think it makes your team better if you develop an inside game even if the kids you use are undersized. It’s hard to defend a fundamental post move even if you’re a little small. Pin and drop step. Head fake if you need to. Up and under. Without a post game you’re kinda like a passing football team without a respectable run game to keep the DB’s honest on the play fake. If there is no inside threat the guards never have to sag off their man to help on the post. You didn't see Shelby play in in the late late 60's. Cal Dietz was 6-7 and at least 240. 100% back to the basket. He moved from Crestline to Shelby to play football. I think he scored around 400 points his Jr and Sr seasons, when they only played 18 games. In the late 90's they had a 6-7 kid Josh Steele, most of his points came down low. I think he got a scholarship to a mid major school. Yep. Before my time. I moved to Shelby in ‘99. A football school should absolutely utilize the post. They are always going to have a tight end or an athletic tackle (like Walters this year) who can use their marginal height AND WIDTH to pin people and learn 3-4 basic post moves to either score or draw a foul. Teach them to box out and they get a half dozen defensive boards. And let them remind people the lane is a dangerous place for skinny kids ala Bill Laimbeer.
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Post by baldref on Dec 31, 2020 22:09:50 GMT -5
Both wf and fan are correct, imo, in their respective posts. In my over 50 years of watching shelby/willard roundball, it seems true post play is a forgotten art. I am old school in that I was taught that you needed an enforcer in the middle, big and bulky preferably. If he could drop step and score, all the better. I think the advent of the 3 point line and shot has led to that demise more than anything. That's why I enjoy most B1G college basketball teams that have the "bigs" and play physical games. Unfortunately, most middle and high schools discourage big kids because they emphasize the run and stun offense.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 1, 2021 0:26:58 GMT -5
Do you remember Ontario's Matt Smith? Second Team All-Ohio when he was a Senior. He only averaged about 14PPG. THE reason he was All-Ohio is because he was 6-9 240. Before a kid can play really well in the post he must be blessed with at least 79 inches, broad shoulders, good hands and good feet. Being a tight end or an offensive tackle isn't enough. 6-5 is pretty common these days in high school basketball.
Joe has always said, give me 3 good guards and you have a good chance of beating just about anybody. He proved that with his only Final Four team. No one over 6-1 and they took Orrville to OT before losing, they had a 6-8, 6-5, 6-5.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 0:40:36 GMT -5
Do you remember Ontario's Matt Smith? Second Team All-Ohio when he was a Senior. He only averaged about 14PPG. THE reason he was All-Ohio is because he was 6-9 240. Before a kid can play really well in the post he must be blessed with at least 79 inches, broad shoulders, good hands and good feet. Being a tight end or an offensive tackle isn't enough. 6-5 is pretty common these days in high school basketball. Joe has always said, give me 3 good guards and you have a good chance of beating just about anybody. He proved that with his only Final Four team. No one over 6-1 and they took Orrville to OT before losing, they had a 6-8, 6-5, 6-5. Good Point guard will make a good team into a great team. One of the weaknesses I see in Shelby is a needing a floor general...
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Post by buckeye33 on Jan 1, 2021 16:32:32 GMT -5
Coach Loney was begging his players to post up the entire game, to no avail...until the 4th quarter. I saw him twice during time-outs, screaming at his players to post up. Finally in the 4th quarter they did...and scored 27 points
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 1, 2021 18:46:40 GMT -5
Coach Loney was begging his players to post up the entire game, to no avail...until the 4th quarter. I saw him twice during time-outs, screaming at his players to post up. Finally in the 4th quarter they did...and scored 27 points Players shouldn't wait until the 4th quarter to do what they are told UNLESS a coach's playbook doesn't have specific plays he can call that if run correctly have players posting up. Just telling his team to "post up" isn't good enough at the high school level.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 19:21:41 GMT -5
Coach Loney was begging his players to post up the entire game, to no avail...until the 4th quarter. I saw him twice during time-outs, screaming at his players to post up. Finally in the 4th quarter they did...and scored 27 points Players shouldn't wait until the 4th quarter to do what they are told UNLESS a coach's playbook doesn't have specific plays he can call that if run correctly have players posting up. Just telling his team to "post up" isn't good enough at the high school level. Had multiple parents tell me multiple times at timeouts coach loney was simply telling Pugh and Lantz they both needed to post everytime they cut in motion offense. And i seen in his post game interview he mentioned that was their plan from the get go due to the size advantage and those two did their duties in the forth finally.. and what he’s telling his team must be good enough so far cause they are 5-1 and I’m pretty sure puts him at 3-0 against JOE.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 1, 2021 21:19:48 GMT -5
They didn't listen to Loney for 3 quarters did they? I guarantee JOE's players listen to him a lot sooner than that. Shelby has by far the most talent, they should win by 20. But if they don't listen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2021 22:09:55 GMT -5
They didn't listen to Loney for 3 quarters did they? I guarantee JOE's players listen to him a lot sooner than that. Shelby has by far the most talent, they should win by 20. But if they don't listen. They listened when it was crunch time. Did Shelby go to Lima senior and win because they had more talent. I think not. Better athletes? Nope. They executed a great game plan against Lima. Shelby was also on their 5th game in 13 days two of those days being Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. After Monday they will have played 7 games in 17 days. All Everyone wanted to talk about is Ontario was gonna win the league the last two years because of coaching. Shelby did not have better basketball talent 1-5 last year. Better athletes? Yes. Like I said Coach loney is now 5-1 and 3-0 against joe.
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Post by dude on Jan 2, 2021 0:14:47 GMT -5
devil don't waste your time. The master of excuses will spin and twist everything to make his saint of a coach look good. Talent can go 8 deep and when you compare these two rosters Ontario may have more experienced talent.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 2, 2021 0:18:47 GMT -5
It's ok only to listen to your coach one out of the 4 quarters?? The same game plan used against Lima wouldn't work against Ontario? SO the reason they didn't listen to their coach is they were tired?? Ontario had 2 games in 3 days same as Shelby. Ontario had 3 games in the last 12, Shelby 3 in the last 11. Stop the whining, it's not becoming. Who the hell is "everyone"?? The Shelbillies? No one with an intellect was saying Ontario was going to win the league the last 2 years. Saying Shelby didn't have the best talent 1-5 proves you know little about basketball. Shelby only played 5 guys?? At this stage of their careers it is tomfoolery to compare these 2 coaches over the last year and a half. The hole you're standing is just getting deeper with all the flailing for excuses you're doing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 0:29:16 GMT -5
It's ok only to listen to your coach one out of the 4 quarters?? The same game plan used against Lima wouldn't work against Ontario? SO the reason they didn't listen to their coach is they were tired?? Ontario had 2 games in 3 days same as Shelby. Ontario had 3 games in the last 12, Shelby 3 in the last 11. Stop the whining, it's not becoming. Who the hell is "everyone"?? The Shelbillies? No one with an intellect was saying Ontario was going to win the league the last 2 years. Saying Shelby didn't have the best talent 1-5 proves you know little about basketball. Shelby only played 5 guys?? At this stage of their careers it is tomfoolery to compare these 2 coaches over the last year and a half. The hole your standing is just getting deeper with all the flailing for excuses you're doing. Only one making excuses is yourself. All I’m telling you was Shelby was far from their best and still walked out on top. Watch Lima senior play and watch Ontario. Not even in the same ball park. What Shelby did against Lima wasnt needed to beat Ontario. And last year your telling me Shelby had better basketball players I’ll go a step farther and say 1-9 because Shelby rotated 9. Because your foolish if you think so. Shows how little you know. Shelby had no one who shot over 30% from 3pt line last season on varsity roster. Now great athletes yes. The fact that’s your so socially diverse that you refer to them as shelbillies shows you need to hide back your hole inside the O-Rena and continue to celebrate your BIG wins over teams as Galion and Sparta Highland.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2021 0:39:32 GMT -5
devil don't waste your time. The master of excuses will spin and twist everything to make his saint of a coach look good. Talent can go 8 deep and when you compare these two rosters Ontario may have more experienced talent. Your 100% correct. I’m sure he was probably one of the Ontario fans who thought they were homered but im pretty sure i seen the foul totals were Shelby 23 And Ontario 14. Little does he know that 5 of Shelby’s now key players played JV mins last year and 3 were JV starters and and 2 played 8th grade basketball. Yes Shelby has great basketball talent but not nearly as much experience.
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Post by Willard Fillmore on Jan 2, 2021 1:56:26 GMT -5
devil don't waste your time. The master of excuses will spin and twist everything to make his saint of a coach look good. Talent can go 8 deep and when you compare these two rosters Ontario may have more experienced talent. Don't listen to the prevaricator hater dudette. READ again dudette, it's devil making the excuses for not beating Ontario by more than 5 points. I say they should have won by more. ONE... he says Shelby's players didn't listen to their coach for 3 of the 4 quarters. TWO... he suggests the game plan used against Lima wouldn't work against Ontario. THREE...Shelby and Ontario playing the same number of games over the past week and half affected Shelby, but not Ontario. Come on dudette, you purport to know your hated "saint", what would he do if his players ignored what he was telling them for 3 quarters? Ontario "May"?? have more experienced talent? Shelby returns the best player in North Central Ohio. Shelby returns a 1st team AND 2nd team All MOAC player, Ontario a 1st Team ALL MOAC player. Shelby returns more lettermen than Ontario, Shelby has more size than Ontario. Shelby returns 3 good shooters. Ontario 2. I guess the only thing Ontario's "experience" shows is they are more astute at listening to their coach.
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